Yesterday morning, as I was working at my desk, I got a phone call:
Female voice with Eastern European accent: Hello, I have some questions about your web site.
Me: Go ahead...
FV: How do you create your website?
Me: With Blogware, our weblogging software. Is there anything in particular you'd like to know?
FV: And how are comments added to the website? Do they email you, and then you add them?
Me: No, that's handled automatically by Blogware. Every article has a link that you can click on to add a comment. You type it in, click a button, and it's there.
FV: And if there were a comment you wanted to delete, could anyone do that?
Me: No, only the owner and people the owner sets up as administrators can do that.
Me: Go ahead...
FV: How do you create your website?
Me: With Blogware, our weblogging software. Is there anything in particular you'd like to know?
FV: And how are comments added to the website? Do they email you, and then you add them?
Me: No, that's handled automatically by Blogware. Every article has a link that you can click on to add a comment. You type it in, click a button, and it's there.
FV: And if there were a comment you wanted to delete, could anyone do that?
Me: No, only the owner and people the owner sets up as administrators can do that.
At this point, it was beginning to dawn on me that the person on the other end of the line wasn't a customer. What was going on?
FV: I am asking because I would like a comment removed. Someone left a comment that is not true.
Me: Not true? Which one?
FV: The one in the thing about movers. Someone left a comment about our company that is not true. They said we did things, but they signed a paper clearing us. If you do not remove this comment, we will send our lawyers after you.
Me: Not true? Which one?
FV: The one in the thing about movers. Someone left a comment about our company that is not true. They said we did things, but they signed a paper clearing us. If you do not remove this comment, we will send our lawyers after you.
I sighed. I needed to get a lot of work done, and dealing with non-work headaches, especially the threat of legal action, was the last thing I needed.
I decided the best thing to do for the time being would be to copy the comment, take it down and evaluate the situation when I had more time. I pointed my browser at the Blogware control panel, found the article and called up its comment-editing page.
For the record, here's the comment:
Re: Anyone Know any Good Toronto Movers?It was written by my friend Jay Goldman. I've known Jay for about three years and I've worked with him on a couple of occasions. He's always dealt straight with me.
by Anonymous on 2005.06.27 02:00PM EDT | IP: 70.29.128.20
No good ones to recommend but two to avoid at all costs:
Moveworks
Hired them in 2001 to move between two units in the same building. They showed up 3 hours late, failed to bring wardrobe boxes, and sent two 16 year old kids with one of their girlfriends. They moved about four things into the service elevator and then took off, leaving two moving dollies behind and me to do the entire move without assistance. Thank god for friends.
Quick Boys Moving & Storage http://www.quickboysmoving.com/
Avoid like the plague. Hired in April to move my girlfriend into our place. They took seven hours to load a one bedroom apartment into the truck and drive about ten minutes (they were, of course, being paid hourly). Held her stuff hostage at this end until we paid for the full move. Damaged a substantial percentage of the furniture with scratches, etc. "Forgot" to unload two boxes of crystalware and took three weeks to deliver it to us. The movers were surly, unpleasant, and stank of body odour.
Good luck! A lot of the companies out there really exist to rip you off so be careful. I've heard good things about El Cheapo and Two Small Guys With Big Hearts but have never used either. If I ever hire movers again, I'll just swallow my cost-saving needs and go with the big guys.
Me: And you say that this comment is not true?
FV: It is a lie. Let me put my boss on the line.
Gruff Male Voice with Eastern European Accent: Remove that comment. That's all I'm going to say. (click)
Niiiiice. A real sweetheart, that one. There was a bit of an edge to the "That's all I'm going to say" bit.FV: It is a lie. Let me put my boss on the line.
Gruff Male Voice with Eastern European Accent: Remove that comment. That's all I'm going to say. (click)
FV: So if you could remove that comment, it would be appreciated. I will check to confirm that they have been deleted.
And with that, she hung up.
I noticed that someone had recently added a new comment about Quick Boys. Here it is:
Re: Anyone Know any Good Toronto Movers?In light of the phone call, the time when the comment was posted and its English-as-a-seconf-language wording, this comment seemed very suspicious, almost as if it were planted by a shill.
by Anonymous on 2005.07.28 10:45AM EDT | IP: 64.229.26.252
I have used Quick Boys Movnig Storage i think they were the best and they have moved couple of my friends as well and they were all happy. I belive no one is perfect even big van line make mistakes as well .
I think whats up there is not true.I highly recomend Quick Boys Moving storage.
Thank you Julian.m
I Googled, using "Quick Boys" and "movers" as search terms. It turns out that the blog entry was the number 2 result. So that's why they were unhappy.
I saved copies of both Quick Boys-related comments to deal with them later and then deleted them.
Five minutes later, she called back.
Female Voice: I am looking at your site and I see that the comments have not been deleted. I am going to talk to your employer.
Me: Have you reloaded the web page?
FV: Reloaded?
Me: On the toolbar of your browser, there should be a picture of a piece of paper with arrows going in circles. That's the "refresh" button. Click it, and you'll reload the page.
FV: Ah. I see. Good.
Me: Now wait a minute. I'm only doing this because I don't have time to deal with you idiots right now. When I get a moment, I'm going to look into this. Now if your complaint is legitimate, I'll gladly do as you ask, because I'm not into smearing people. But the way you're acting, that's just plain thuggery. This is a personal web site; my employer has nothing to do with this. The person who made the comment is voicing his opinion and he's not the sort to lie.
FV: But he signed a contract saying he was satisfied.
Me: And if he did, there won't be a problem. But if he wasn't satisfied, his comment is going back up. You can't go pushing people around like this. Do I make myself clear?
FV: I understand.
Me: Have you reloaded the web page?
FV: Reloaded?
Me: On the toolbar of your browser, there should be a picture of a piece of paper with arrows going in circles. That's the "refresh" button. Click it, and you'll reload the page.
FV: Ah. I see. Good.
Me: Now wait a minute. I'm only doing this because I don't have time to deal with you idiots right now. When I get a moment, I'm going to look into this. Now if your complaint is legitimate, I'll gladly do as you ask, because I'm not into smearing people. But the way you're acting, that's just plain thuggery. This is a personal web site; my employer has nothing to do with this. The person who made the comment is voicing his opinion and he's not the sort to lie.
FV: But he signed a contract saying he was satisfied.
Me: And if he did, there won't be a problem. But if he wasn't satisfied, his comment is going back up. You can't go pushing people around like this. Do I make myself clear?
FV: I understand.
I gave Jay a ring. He was in a meeting, so I simply left a message. He called me back later that afternoon:
Jay: Hey, Joey, I hear Quick Boys is on your case.
Me: Heh. Yeah. So, what happened?
Jay: Pretty much what I wrote -- my girlfriend was moving in and hired them. They arrived over an hour late and in the end took a grand total of nine hours to move a single bedroom a short distance. When they got to my place, they refused to unload the truck until she paid up and signed the contract. They took so long that they had to run somewhere else and left a lot of her stuff on the ground floor of the building; we had to take it up ourselves. Plus, they damaged some of her furniture and held onto some her stuff until we complained. They say that she signed something that clears them of any responsibility. I asked them for a copy of this document, and after stalling, said they'd mail it to me. I never received it. It's worthless anyway; I talked to my lawyer and he said that a contract signed under duress like that isn't valid.
Me: Huh.
Jay: Hey, sorry to cause you all this trouble. You can take down the comments --
Me: No. I trust you, and they way they've treated me, I can't say I trust these guys. Those comments are going back up. For me to take them down...
Jay: ...would be pretty bad.
Me: That's right. In fact, I'm going to post a whole damned blog entry about it.
As I mentioned before, I know Jay, and based on his actions and my dealing with him, trust him. On the other hand, my (admittedly and thankfully) brief experience with Quick Boys has been filled with subterfuge and threats. Thus far, I have no reason to trust them.
The worst thing I can do as a high-profile Toronto blogger, an employee of a company that makes blogging software and a card-carrying member of the EFF is to back down in the face of idle threats like those made by the people at Quick Boys. When someone kowtows to bullying like this, we all lose.
If any representative of Quick Boys wishes to respond to this, they can do so in the comments or give me a ring at the office. I believe they know the number.
It's nice that even blogging can expose these half-cracked businesses that exist only to rip people off. The day of the 'threatening phone calls' to straighten things out is bullsh**. I hope you and Jay do NOT back down, and that more people learn about this business and eventually shut them down.
I am glad you stood up to those people. Movers can be such a pain. I have moved multiple times and each time my mover seems to suck. This last time I moved I found my mover on one of these get quote things I think it was
They sent me a mover that was slightly better then my last mover. But I have come to the conclusion that all moving companies try to rip you off in one way or another.
Misty
You are getting married soon and you have your whole life ahead of you. Why mess around with a bunch of Eastern European thugs like this?
When a person's livlihood is messed with, they can get really nasty. I think the last thing you should do is expand the story. Think of you fiance, your future children, and yourself.
Expanding the story is only going to mess up their google search even more and enrage them further.
Forget all this macho stuff and be a real man.
I ended up not asking him not to post it because I have to practice what I preach here at work or I'd be a giant hypocrite. I know a crapload of lawyers who specialize in just this sort of thing, too.
But we did discuss it, which is the point of this comment.
Having said that, I'm rather glad Joey has posted this. A test case on this issue would turn all those precedents on their head and prevent the stupidity of internet censorship.
1) I have never met any of these sketchy crime-type russians or ukranians, but it seems to me you are making a generalization. Almost every minority group has a seedy underbelly (ever been to Montreal? Everybody's got a mafia there!)
2) The Canadian gov't didn't "let" them in, slavic immigrants helped build this country, and that is why the prairies are peppered with communities full of them.
3) Slavic girls are hot. Nuff said.
- Gloria
Beware that nobody actually knows if these people are from eastern Europe. Even if they are, does that make any difference in the least? Don't let nationalism fool you.
Cheers,
Niklas
You are getting married soon and you have your whole life ahead of you. Why mess around with a bunch of Eastern European thugs like this?
When a person's livlihood is messed with, they can get really nasty. I think the last thing you should do is expand the story. Think of you fiance, your future children, and yourself.
Expanding the story is only going to mess up their google search even more and enrage them further.
Forget all this macho stuff and be a real man.
"You are not currently logged in. If you would like your user information to be displayed with your comment, please enter your login information below."
So, uh, where do I get my login information?
Seriously, do I have to sign up for a blogware blog or something? I already have a blog.
Okay, I don't know how to log in, but...
"You are getting married soon and you have your whole life ahead of you. Why mess around with a bunch of Eastern European thugs like this?"
Pathetic. Utterly, pathetic.
Thanks for posting this story. It's hilarious.
Good move to 'out' the whole shituation here. I'd stay in heavily populated areas and avoid dark alleyways for while tho.
-RW
I really like the fact that they, "Quick Boys Movers" (let's mention them as much as possible to get this posting also high on google :) created more bad publicity by treatening you poorly. I should create a posting myself, mention them and link to this post.
http://www.vpix.com/docs_f/rhps/trivia/atlas.c/atlas01.jpg
(Love this post Joey)
de Villa'd: verb, to protect one's blog from threat of lawsuit from a Eastern European moving company
Way to stand up for free speech all that is right and good. May kittens, puppies and children rejoice, and statues be raised on your honor.
I couldn't delete the comment, it turns out, because I lost my login to the control page for the service I was using. He hasn't called since, but I still avoid mentioning the robbery.
For hours of Schadenfreude, visit Apartment 606
bunny
MovingGuy-Yanosch.mp3
MovingGuy-Boris.mp3
How do Bastards, Inc. prevent and/or stop this? By laying off of A.G., thus minimizing the damage their doing to themselves.
Further-- even if it were not true, it is up to them to demonstrate to you that their assertions ("he has signed a paper") are correct, and you are under no obligation to act until you have reasonable grounds to believe their assertions. Mere "hearsay" by phone is not sufficient. Specifically, you were under no legal obligation to act until you had seen a (believable) copy of their "Paper".
You had reasonable grounds to believe the Comment was True, you had no Malice towards "Quick Boys", and there are clear grounds for the Comment being considered both Fair Comment and In The Public Benefit.
You're safe.
cheers
Sal
Any Canadian lawyers out there? Which is the case in Canada?
The funny thing, though, is that the UK press is far more fearless and aggressive than the US press is, even though publishing anything critical is much more legally risky in the UK.
I'm inclined to think that legally, in this case, Joey's in the clear b/c he had no reason to believe it was false information.
By the way, this is an awesome post...
As I was reading your post I couldn't help but have Boris and Natasha's voices in my head. I don't think I'd want Boris and Natasha moving my stuff...
Cheers, and thanks for the heads up.
Lee
Bob Garbutt Newmarket Ontario myplumber@rogers.com
Avoud these thieves
Kim
Most of these comments dump on major corporations, not Little Boris Movers and Shakers. Don't you think, with all their millions, if there was a legal way to shut down comment sections, they would?
Still, even Apple and other major corporations allow embarrasing comments on their own web sites.
No libel.
This is ostensibly a business enterprise, and if incorporated is subject to the whims of the market.
I guess business is slow at Quick Boy Movers for them to find the time to track you down at work to tell you what to do with your own personal blog.
What a crazy story?
Have a look again. It's posted right above the original Jullian-post.
Thanks for the great lesson in how NOT to deal with a blogger!
Jack
David Magda
http://www.cippic.ca/
http://www.cippic.ca/
Any better?
Hurrah free speach! Thanks Jay.
Truth is not an absolute defense in Canadian defamation law. You can make true statements with the intent to defame and be found guilty of defamation. – Joe Clark
But the key phrase is "with intent to defame". Without this Intent, Truth can form part of a valid defence.
Sal
I'd elaborate, but that would mean I'd have to describe your post. And there's nothing worse than describing someone's words, or how they sound on the phone.
Mentioning someone's race is not the same as xenophobia. And if your knee-jerk reaction so completely colours everything you read, your opinion is not safe to rely on or even consider.
WTF?
Dude, if everyone spent their entire lives trying not to inspire dislike in others, no one would get anything done.
Do ya know? Some sub-continent in origin young lady called me a snob on the train the other day. Is it because I is a cracker?
Joey, you should be ashamed you redneck jerk! Oh, wait... ;-)
I'd elaborate, but that would mean I'd have to describe your post. And there's nothing worse than describing someone's words, or how they sound on the phone.
http://quickboysmovingstorage.supersites.ca/testimonials1/
Balls in now in your court, Joey..
Ball's back in your court, fraud of a moving company.
Funny how all of their testimonials share a lack of grammar... almost like.... they're the same person.
June,2003 Sara Mori
Fake. So fake.
Mixed Up Socks
Excerpt:
"...It looks like Quick Boys Moving and Storage company in Canada doesn't like people complaining about their service. They make you sign a waiver saying you're satisfied with their service before they'll unload your stuff. If you comment about their less than perfect service in a friends blog later, they'll track down your friend at work, tell him to remove the comment, threaten him with lawsuits and even say they will contact his employer. They might have even make veiled threats toward your friend and his fiance in the blog's comments...
Sure, this sounds a little far fetched, but I'm buying it.
Read about it here, and when you're done, blog about it. If you have a comments section open to the public, you should be interested in this."
Posted:
07.29.05 9:36 pm
Congrats on your achievement.
I live in T.O. and have never heard of these villains, I mean substandard movers. What a nightmare to have to endure if you are unfortunate enough to hire them.
Kudos on your failure to be intimidated by their english speaking representative. It is good to fight EVIL with GOOD because many web-savvy individuals will now not be hiring them or using their pathetic services.
On a practical note, these people can just rename their company and start swindling others of their possessions and money. It would have been better had your friend also posted their license plate number and the full names of the people that were moving his stuff. This is something we should all do to protect our interests at the outset of a move. In this manner you have the names and particulars of anyone that wants to intimidate you or not perform the contract as agreed.
Cheers,
Alex
On the other hand, it'd be scary as a small business owner if my significant other's ex decided to defame me on his blog and it lead to the demise of my business.
What good is "legal protection" going to do if they break your legs or something stupid like that? Its like saying, "sure pedestrians have the right of way - but are you stupid enough to j-walk the freeway?" You get your ass hurt or killed - you think a lawsuit will help bring something back?
That's the case where I say, for all the crap DRM and such has - it could actually come in handy because then EVERYONE is easily tracable - and we have at least better protection on our own personal PHYSICAL security, as for our rights? Well that's another matter.
Cudos Joey - if only more people would stand up to those who believe that force and intimidation will get them anything good in this world.
cheers!
And you say it's just a "small comment", but as you can tell from this brouhaha, Google scores aren't that hard to influence (and checking your Google entry is good business, IMHO). It wouldn't be that hard to sabotage a competitor with malicious blog comments.
In the immortal words of Chris Rock, I'm not saying it's right, but I understand.
That said, I do hope legal action is taken against the movers. Or at least file a complaint with BBB (or Canadian equivalent) so it's on the record. Fraud and intimidation by moving companies go unpunished too often.
yt
Like I said though, all in all they did a pretty decent job. I'm sorry other's have had such a problem with them. Moving sucks no matter how well the process goes. Next time I'm just going to throw out all my stuff and start fresh in the new place. I like the idea of being a minimalist.
I like this section ... it seems like the shill got his college dropout son to be a secondary shill:
"Like I said though, all in all they did a pretty decent job. I'm sorry other's have had such a problem with them. Moving sucks no matter how well the process goes. Next time I'm just going to throw out all my stuff and start fresh in the new place. I like the idea of being a minimalist."
The sarcasm in the next to last sentence seems to be a way of saying "aw, come on, give 'em a break.."
But I'm into subtelty. I hate the idea of being a minimalist.
The beat goes on so there is no sense in trying to stop it. Thump. Thump. Thump. Do you hear it? It is the great heart of life pumping in the only way it knows how.
Besides, this Quick Boy story is dead. Take a look at The Soundtrack from My Personal Coming-Of-Age Film, Part Deux - wow!
Avoid Quick Boys moving at all costs...